What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

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What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by Williamsto »

As fellow Star Trek fans, I was wondering what everyone else's opinion on the lawsuit was?

Original Reporting

Here is EP Alec Peters response:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)STATEMENT FROM ALEC PETERS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF AXANAR
December 30, 2015
This morning, I was greeted with news that our production company, Axanar Productions and I, personally, am being sued by CBS Studios, Inc. and Paramount Pictures Corporation for copyright infringement of Star Trek.
First of all, I was disappointed to learn about this through an article in an industry trade. For several years, I’ve worked with a number of people at CBS on Star Trek-related projects, and I would have hoped those personal relationships would have warranted a phone call in advance of the filing of a legal complaint. Nevertheless, I know I speak for everyone at Axanar Productions when I say it is our hope that this can be worked out in a fair and amicable manner.
Axanar is a fan film. Fan films – whether related to Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Power Rangers, Batman or any other franchise – are labors of love that keep fans engaged, entertained, and keep favorite characters alive in the hearts of fans. Like other current fan films, AXANAR entered production based on a very long history and relationship between fandom and studios. We’re not doing anything new here.
Like all fan films, AXANAR is a love letter to a beloved franchise. For nearly 50 years, Star Trek’s devotees have been creating new Star Trek stories to share with fellow fans. That’s all we’re trying to do here.
Since the original Star Trek TV series, when the letter writing campaign by fans got NBC to greenlight a third season of Star Trek, fan support has been critical to the success of the franchise. It is the Star Trek fans themselves who are most affected here, for by suing Axanar Productions to stop making our movie and collect so-called damages, CBS and Paramount are suing the very people who have enthusiastically maintained the universe created by Gene Roddenberry so many years ago.
The fact that many of the fans involved with Axanar Productions are also industry professionals speaks volumes to the influence of Star Trek in the entertainment industry. Not surprisingly, these fans want to give something back. We’re very proud that the work we’ve done to date looks so good. That is also a reflection of the devotion of Star Trek’s fans.
Like everything related to Axanar Productions, we take this matter very seriously and remain open to discussing solutions with all parties that can be mutually beneficial.
Alec Peters
And Star Trek Writer David Gerrold's input:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)David Gerrold
January 2 at 2:21pm ·
So let me talk about the lawsuit against Axanar, by CBS and Paramount.

I will qualify my remarks by saying I have no dog in this particular fight, I am only a knowledgeable observer.

I've known several people in the Paramount legal department, most of whom were honorable. I also have known several fan film productions, most of whom were not only honorable but enthusiastic about Star Trek in a way that should embarrass some of the people who were paid to produce actual episodes of the series.

That said, I think the lawsuit was filed without sufficient consideration of the situation.

Fans have been making Star Trek fan films -- and crowdfunding them -- for fifteen years. There's Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegads, Star Trek Continues, and probably a few others I'm unaware of. These are all recreations of the original series, with fan actors playing Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al. These are all filmed on recreations of the original series bridge and corridors and other sets. They are filmed with replicas of props, costumes, makeup, and set design. They are such accurate recreations of the original series that bootleggers overseas have sold copies of the episodes as if they are the real thing.

All of the fan film productions operate under the same general guideline -- have fun, but you're not allowed to make a profit. So all of the fan film productions are freely available on YouTube.

Part of the reason so many professionals, like myself, have participated in fan productions is the desire to make and see more Star Trek. Those who were too young (or not born yet) to participate in the original series, have come to the fan productions as an opportunity to be a part of the magic.

All of this has to be seen as a measure of the kind of enthusiasm that Star Trek fans have and that should be available to any new Star Trek movie or TV series.

Now, Axanar -- Axanar is not a recreation of the original series. It's about a battle referred to in passing, in only one episode of the original series. It's about a minor character in one episode and how he became a Starfleet legend. It does not take place on the Enterprise. It does not use any of the characters of the original series. Its closest relationship to the original series is that it takes place in the same universe, many years before Kirk and Spock.

Now ... I am not a lawyer and I have not been approached by either side to function as either a consultant or an expert witness (although, if this ever goes to trial, I expect I will be called in) -- but, if Axanar represents an infringement on the copyrights of Paramount and CBS, then so does Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegades, and Star Trek Continues. And whoever else.

Based on the number of views that all these separate iterations have earned worldwide -- possibly more than a hundred million -- Paramount and CBS could file for damages of a billion dollars.

And the resulting fannish firestorm would go on for years.

As I have heard the story, the first New Voyages episode was a private adventure, never intended for internet distribution. But one of the participants did upload it to YouTube -- and shortly thereafter, James Cawley received a call from Paramount legal, the gist of which was: "Have fun, but don't sell tickets, don't sell copies, don't make a profit."

Now, that was smart, it recognized fannish enthusiasm -- but at the same time, it planted the seeds for today's situation, because it created a de facto license for all Star Trek fan films.

Which brings us to the lawsuit against Axanar. The lawyers have to prove two things:

1) That this fan film represents a significant usage of Paramount/CBS's property.

and

2) Axanar is a profit-making enterprise. (Ohell, it isn't even THE Enterprise.)

Both will be hard to prove, especially the latter, because of all the fan films, Axanar has been the most transparent with its fund-raising and its accounting.

There is a third point that would likely be made in such a court case:

If Axanar represents a threat to the copyright, why haven't Paramount and CBS taken steps to shut down New Voyages, Farragut, Renegades, and Continues? What makes Axanar different? What makes Axanar a threat?

Paramount/CBS's response would likely be that Axanar represents a professional level of production. Well, yes -- but so does New Voyages. (I can't speak for any of the others on that, although I do know that many professionals have been involved with Continues and Renegades.)

There is a way out of this mess -- and if people on all sides of this are smart -- it could be resolved in a matter of days.

Lucasfilm is the model. They created an award for fan films and even arranged licensing and distribution.

Paramount/CBS should do the same. There are people at CBS who would love to put out a DVD or Blu-ray distribution of Star Trek fan films, but have so far been unable to get approval for the idea. But it's a good idea. An official distribution of fan films would generate money for both the copyright owners and for the filmmakers to use in future efforts. The fan-films would be officially licensed as fan productions.

To make this work, the studio would have to hire a qualified liaison to work with various fan films to make sure that they follow appropriate guidelines and in return would receive the blessings of legal distribution and protection.

By keeping the fan films in a specific licensed venue, a kind of voluntary garden, Paramount and CBS would benefit from the good publicity of being seen to promote and foster great fan efforts -- the fans would benefit from having a specific legal venue for their individual productions.

Yes, there would be a lot of paperwork to be settled -- and I expect the cooperation of various Guilds might be necessary as well -- but the goal here is to produce a win-win situation for everyone, but especially for the fans.

Because if it weren't for the fans and their loyalty for the past 49 years, there wouldn't have been a franchise in the first place.

Feel free to share.
Last edited by Williamsto on Wed January 13th, 2016 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by JarekCyphus »

I think David Gerrold hit it on the nose. To even think that Star Trek is in any position for its parent company to seek damages from a labor of love effort is on a level of ludicrous I won't even begin to entertain. If they expect Star Trek to make a triumphant return in its 50th Anniversary, torpedoing a work of art spun out of a few words in the original series is not only foolish, it's likely to severely backfire on CBS in a way I can only predict may irreparably harm the future of Star Trek.

CBS often gets away with earning revenue hand over fist, but Star Trek is a delicate franchise on whose fans you simply cannot trample.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by cmdraftbrn »

if they're about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory they're on the right track.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by No Mercy »

One Question.... why is CBS/Paramount bringing a lawsuit now? Axanar has been crowdfunding for over a year. why now?

my opinion....they are embarrassed....or they want their cake and eat it.

I think CBS/Paramount thought Axanar would be another 2 bit crappy fan fiction, with cheap CGI, cheap actors no one has heard of and badly filmed....

When prelude to Axanar came out i think someone at CBS/Paramount watch it and thought " :censored:! this looks awesome!, great CGI, Great story line, popular well known actors actors. We can't have this! It will show us up, proving that start trek can be filmed on a fraction budget we charge and still brings in the punters! we might get less of a budget next time if we want to shoot another Star trek and in turn WE WILL MAKE LESS MONEY!!"

"I KNOW!, we will sue them hoping to win it or at least stall it"

Basically CBS/Paramount are OK with fans making crappy fan films that look crappy, but as soon as the fan film looks like studio quality filming with well know professional actors and a Expert film crew then they are not ok with it.

They want their cake and eat it! and that's just not fair, not fair on Axanar's hard work and definitely not fair on the fans that have invested in it.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by Amicus »

No Mercy wrote:Basically CBS/Paramount are OK with fans making crappy fan films that look crappy, but as soon as the fan film looks like studio quality filming with well know professional actors and a Expert film crew then they are not ok with it.
Yep, but I think not so much embarrassed by a good quality fan picture as more worried by the potential threat to their legal ownership of all the intellectual property (and therefore profits). Paramount and the network owners (whichever network) have always been a mixed benefit to Star Trek. I am wondering if a settlement is not possible; I would think all they really need is a symbolic pound of flesh to establish that they are king of the IP.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by Sabot02 »

I must largely agree with No Mercy. The quality of Axanar is something that is not only up there with what CBS are producing, but out right surpasses it. On to top of that, Axanar mostly sticks to ST cannon and tells a good story, which CBS are determined to undermine with they're latest offerings.

In short, Axanar are producing a product that is better in every way to what CBS are producing. CBS know it and the long time fans know it. It's jealously, plain and simple.

That is my opinion any way.

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*I should add at this point, that there is great potential for difference of opinion in these kind of threads to run into arguments. So lets try and respect the opinions of others because they are legitimate opinions, even if you disagree.*
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by Compston »

Anyone with a copyright has to protect the property otherwise the copyright is useless. I know a few servers on NWN back in the day always had problems if they were based on a franchise. Some were told to shut down by the franchise owner. No money exchanged hands, but their property had to be protected.

Chances are their lawyers chose this one to hit because it is professional looking.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by No Mercy »

Amicus wrote:
No Mercy wrote:Basically CBS/Paramount are OK with fans making crappy fan films that look crappy, but as soon as the fan film looks like studio quality filming with well know professional actors and a Expert film crew then they are not ok with it.
Yep, but I think not so much embarrassed by a good quality fan picture as more worried by the potential threat to their legal ownership of all the intellectual property (and therefore profits). Paramount and the network owners (whichever network) have always been a mixed benefit to Star Trek. I am wondering if a settlement is not possible; I would think all they really need is a symbolic pound of flesh to establish that they are king of the IP.
As much as it infuriates me, I think your right, I can see this going 4 ways.

1. CBS lose and Axanar wins the right to carry on...i'm assuming we all want this.
2. A compromise agreement is created where Axanar makes some kind of payment....basically OUR money going to CBS so they go do one!.
3. CBS wins and is ordered to pay damages but is allowed to continue.
4. CBS wins and Axanar is told to shut down.

Don't you just love corporate greed. :D I understand and respect that a copyright has to be protected but Axanar is making NO MONEY from this, NO PROFIT! NOTHING! its purely the will of dedicated hard core trek fans to make something they can be proud of.
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by JarekCyphus »

There's no money in the Federation, but CBS will be damned if their well runs dry! :lol:
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Re: What's everyone's opinion on the Axanar/CBS lawsuit?

Post by mavar »

Just...very disappointing.

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