The 12th Fleet: Starbase Valhalla

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showt ... ?t=1405231

Just so everyones aware of whats to come and why their SS will no longer be hitting as hard as before.

For months now a very vocal group of PvPers have been crying for nerfs and it seems Cryptic has finally decided its time to do something about it.

Im already looking at alternatives to SS. I dont play PvP and in my experience it while it was a bit of a heavy handed ability it wasnt terribly OP in my hands.

This is now the second Intel ability Ill be looking to remove from my BOff layout. Which pretty much leaves just OSS. Guess its back to the generic abilities for me.

Considering how little attention PvP gets from Cryptic, I'm amazed they listen to them at all.

WelshAvenger wrote:Considering how little attention PvP gets from Cryptic, I'm amazed they listen to them at all.

Thats the insane part. SS3 is considered to be at the heart of the problem. But the reality is SS3 Vaping was only occuring when certain circumstances were being met and particular abilities were being popped. So it wasnt as if this was occurring back to back or anything. Effort had to be made to actually Vape anyone in PvP utilizing SS3.

And while I was certainly okay with SS3s [ACC] being nerfed. It boggles the mind as to how they came to the conclusion that the current intended nerf was at all a good idea. Bort is even selling the 'We're sure players will continue to find it a viable ability' stance. But its the complete opposite as PvEers will surely soon experience. Its made the ability even less attractive then BFAW3 and will cause anyone running a beamscort attempting to avoid too much aggro rethink their ability layout.

It makes no sense that a single target ability would be softer than a multi target ability. But apparently Cryptic could care less about such balance as BFAW continues to assist in ramping up Cruiser sales.

And that puts paid to my Scryer's most viable build. Sigh.

WelshAvenger wrote:Considering how little attention PvP gets from Cryptic, I'm amazed they listen to them at all.

Allegiance86 wrote:Im already looking at alternatives to SS. I dont play PvP and in my experience it while it was a bit of a heavy handed ability it wasnt terribly OP in my hands.

Because nobody was using it against you. The thing is, Cryptic has announced that NPCs will start using Intel and Command abilities against PvE'ers. I think that had more weight in Cryptic's decision to nerf the ability than what the PvP'ers were saying. They don't want the PvE'ers dying all the time and crying about it.

Thats the insane part. SS3 is considered to be at the heart of the problem. But the reality is SS3 Vaping was only occuring when certain circumstances were being met and particular abilities were being popped. So it wasnt as if this was occurring back to back or anything. Effort had to be made to actually Vape anyone in PvP utilizing SS3.

I have done some PvP against opponents using SS3 escorts. It's ridiculously overpowered, very easy to do and one shots cruisers with no great effort.

It's not like you guys really need the OP ability anyways. The only thing the change will do is it will take a few seconds more to kill the NPCs. So stop crying and enjoy the game. I know I will since PvP will be a bit more bearable now.

Sysil wrote:

WelshAvenger wrote:Considering how little attention PvP gets from Cryptic, I'm amazed they listen to them at all.

Allegiance86 wrote:Im already looking at alternatives to SS. I dont play PvP and in my experience it while it was a bit of a heavy handed ability it wasnt terribly OP in my hands.

Because nobody was using it against you. The thing is, Cryptic has announced that NPCs will start using Intel and Command abilities against PvE'ers. I think that had more weight in Cryptic's decision to nerf the ability than what the PvP'ers were saying. They don't want the PvE'ers dying all the time and crying about it.

Thats the insane part. SS3 is considered to be at the heart of the problem. But the reality is SS3 Vaping was only occuring when certain circumstances were being met and particular abilities were being popped. So it wasnt as if this was occurring back to back or anything. Effort had to be made to actually Vape anyone in PvP utilizing SS3.

I have done some PvP against opponents using SS3 escorts. It's ridiculously overpowered, very easy to do and one shots cruisers with no great effort.

It's not like you guys really need the OP ability anyways. The only thing the change will do is it will take a few seconds more to kill the NPCs. So stop crying and enjoy the game. I know I will since PvP will be a bit more bearable now.

We dont need strong abilities? Have you played any of the PvE content in the last six months? Unless youre doing 15k DPS you dont belong in any Advanced Queue. The average player post DR is still clocking well below 5k.

Heres a shocker for you. No one in PvE has made any record breaking runs with SS3. None. The only reason you see this ability as OP is because of the ACC attribute to it. Had only that been removed the ability would still be worth while in PvE while removing the issue in PvP.

Allegiance86 wrote:We dont need strong abilities? Have you played any of the PvE content in the last six months? Unless youre doing 15k DPS you dont belong in any Advanced Queue. The average player post DR is still clocking well below 5k.

Yes I have. That's a problem that's been present in STO in quite some time. It's not about abilities, it's about the game not teaching average players how to construct effective builds and how to pilot their ship. It has nothing to do with SS.

Allegiance86 wrote:Heres a shocker for you. No one in PvE has made any record breaking runs with SS3. None. The only reason you see this ability as OP is because of the ACC attribute to it. Had only that been removed the ability would still be worth while in PvE while removing the issue in PvP.

Don't put words in my mouth please. The only reason I ACTUALLY see this ability as OP is because it ONE SHOTS cruisers in PvP. ACC is part but not the whole problem.

I thing that does actually shock me is that you are saying people don't do enough DPS, and then complain about a nerf to an ability you should not even be using in PvE if you want to be really effective at doing DPS.

Seems only complaining for the sake of complaining to me.

I've found it pretty effective in PvE as an adjunct to Fire at Will on the Scryer (even only at rank 1, with a good set of crafted CritDx3 or 4 AP beams) which is limited in-terms of tactical seating, other than that i've not used it. It's not breaking records but as a single, hard target skill (thinking tactical cubes and the like with big hit point pools where you can deploy it multiple times) it's better than beam overload and I think scores well against FAW too. Having no PvP experience I can't speak to it's effect there but if it's 1 shotin' things, that don't sound right.

Other than that, I'd say there are ways around the problem in terms of builds. None of us are actually sure that this is going to make a massive difference to a particular ship build...

Also, my other suggestion for a reasonable intel ability is Ionic turbulence for PvE, it can produce a very good debuff effect in combination with Sci Sensor Scans, attack patterns etc and will enhance your damage output. I drop it on GW'd enemies and follow up with as many other AoEs as possible to get max benefit. Seems to work well enough.

Thanks Dan for trying to adapt instead of crying "EVUL PVP'ERS NERFED MY BUILD" to the forums.

There are so many options you can use. Some are better than others, obviously. You just need to experiment with what suits your playstyle.

Other than that, I'd say there are ways around the problem in terms of builds. None of us are actually sure that this is going to make a massive difference to a particular ship build...

+1

Allegiance86 wrote: I dont play PvP and in my experience it while it was a bit of a heavy handed ability it wasnt terribly OP in my hands.

How can you gauge whether or not its too good if you've never used it in the context where people claim it's too good? I still keep in touch with my pvp buddies, and the reports I get from them are all tales of getting instantly killed in tanked-out cruisers, much less escorts or sci ships. If it can instantly kill someone in pvp, doesn't that seem a little too good?

The fundamental problem is how buffs stack without limit or diminishing returns, and SS allows for massive spike damage, which is a huge problem in PvP and matters not at all for PvE. The two game modes are balanced according to radically different rules, while players interact with them using the same ships and abilities, leading to silly, silly things happening sometimes.

PS: Listen to Sysil, he knows what he's talking about. I'm probably such a relic that few remember my reign of terror in the pvp queues, but Sysil at least still plays this terrible game while I'm busy dropping Supers on people in EVE, so pay our old bitter pvp veterans some respect, mmkay?