More Updates to Rewards and PvE Queue Difficulty - NO WIN SCENARIO REMOVED FOR TIME BEING!!!!

[jkirk131]

From the STO forums:

Another round of PvE queue updates have been made and are making their way to Tribble for extra testing. As mentioned previously, this is an ongoing effort to improve STO and this update (and those that came before) are not the entirety of what will be done.

New to Tribble this week:

No Win Scenario

The No Win Scenario, both Starfleet and Klingon versions, has been removed from the PvE queue list. With the increase in maximum player level from 50 to 60, we no longer feel this queue is accomplishing its job of providing an intense escalating challenge where players really have to struggle to advance to the later waves. We do have plans to revisit this queue in the near future and rebuild it so it can continue to live up to its name.


Mine Trap

The rewards for successfully completing this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 50% above what they have been previously. Additionally, the failure rewards have been increased by an additional 150% above their existing rewards.


Nukara Prime: Transdimensional Tactics

The rewards for successfully completing the Advanced and Elite versions of this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 100% above what they have been previously (the Normal version’s success rewards remain unchanged). Additionally, the failure rewards for the Normal version of this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 50% above their existing rewards (the Advanced and Elite versions’ failure rewards remain unchanged).


Vault Shuttle Event

We have fixed a bug that was preventing players from accessing the Advanced version of this queue (using the PvE queue window to enter the Advanced version would take you to the Normal version). Additionally, the rewards for successfully completing this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 150% above the existing rewards.


NPC Hitpoint / Shield Bonus Scaling Changes (Advanced and Elite difficulties only)

Shortly after the launch of Delta Rising, we noticed the effects of what turned out to be a mathematical error in the way multiple Hitpoint and Shield buffing passive powers were interacting with one another. This interaction was occurring only on a small number of NPCs which met both of the following criteria:

- Have a passive Hitpoint and/or Shield Buff that increases these pools above what an NPC of their Rank would usually have.
- Are found on Advanced and/or Elite Difficulty maps.

NPCs meeting both of the above criteria do not scale at the same rate as the rest of the NPCs in the game. These NPCs are mainly the "boss type" NPCs seen in queues, but this change, because of how it interacts with the aforementioned calculations, will effect different NPCs to different extremes.

It will NOT change the Hitpoint/Shield values on any NPC encountered on a Normal Difficulty map. The vast majority of NPCs encountered on Advanced and Elite Difficulty will also see no change, as they do not rely upon additional Hitpoint/Shield boosts other than those supplied by the Difficulty setting.

A few examples of specific high-hitpoint Boss NPCs that will be affected are:

- Tholian Project Leader (Transdimensional Tactics)
- The Spawnmother (Bug Hunt)
- The Borg Queen (Into the Hive, both Space and Ground)
- VSW Implacable (Battle of Korfez)

(It is worth noting that this will not affect the Crystalline Entity, as her scaling is handled in a different manner.)

One of the most widespread issues that this will resolve, is that NPCs on the Ground that rely upon a hitpoint boost to offset a lack of shields (Undine, Bluegills, Salt Vampires, etc.) will see an across-the-board increase in their health after this change. Although this will end up appearing as a 33-50% increase in maximum hitpoints for these types of enemies on Advanced and Elite difficulty, it will actually bring them in line with every other NPC in the game. We will be monitoring this particular aspect of the changes to see if it must be tuned separately.

For those that are interested, I’ve included a section about the math involved in this change below (titled “The Math”).


Increase to Skillpoints and Expertise from NPC Kills Base on Difficulty Modifier

We will also be increasing the SP and Expertise bonus for NPCs killed in Advanced and Elite mode. Numeric rewards in Advanced difficulty will increase from 125% to 150%, while in Elite difficulty they will increase from 200% to 250%.


Charles Gray & Jeremy Randall
Lead Content Designer, Systems Designer
Star Trek Online



The Math

For clarity's sake, we'll share the full mathematical issue, and its effects. For the purpose of this demonstration, let's use simplified numbers to illustrate the point of how this hitpoint buff interacts with the Difficulty Scaling buffs, and the NPC's base hitpoints (please note these are example values for simplicity, and not the true values in the game).

Base Hitpoints Value = 1
Elite Difficulty Hitpoints Modifier = 3

So here is a simple formula on how a typical NPC would scale:

1 * 3 = 3

So typical critters in Elite mode has 3x as many HP as in Basic mode. Now let's take the Tholian Project Leader as an example. This boss NPC is found in the queue map "Transdimensional Tactics" which can be played at Advanced and Elite setting, and he relies upon a passive Hitpoint Buff. The passive hitpoint buff on this particular NPC has a very high value.

Tholian Project Leader Passive Hitpoint Buff Modifier = 12

Under the existing system, as it currently sits on Holodeck, these figures interact incorrectly. Their mathematical relationship could be presented as:

1 * (3 + 12) = 15

This results in the final Hitpoint value on Elite being far lower proportionally than other NPCs. By design, the equation was expected to be presented as:

(1 * 12) * 3 = 36

As you can see, the difference can be fairly drastic. This particular NPC possesses the highest Hitpoint Buff of any NPC in the entire game and is an extreme example. Most Boss NPCs have buff magnitudes in the 1-5 range, rather than being in the ~12 neighborhood.

[QorDaq]

So the implication here, is that we are finally getting some general numbers to play with.

Increased rewards (Expertise) = Good-ish.

However, given that, for example; An Advanced queue (presumably) doubles the difficulty, not counting auto-fail instead of missed optionals, but our previous payout was only +25%, this change seems to still be only paying out (relatively speaking) 75% of what a normal queue does. Same with elite (again relatively speaking).

None of which takes into account that Normals do not provide special reputation in-puts, (Neural Processors for example), and neither do failed Advanced or Elite queues.

I get that many players wanted more challenge, I don't mind that, but then to also hear that [some] ground critters are not tough enough? I thought the failed optional was plenty of penalty myself--too much maybe and given that we need the VR crafting mats from those missions.

Very curious.

I am pretty sure I can think of some more attractive strategies to make the queues more enjoyable again.

Heh...

[cmdraftbrn]

so.... this proves cryptic fails basic math?

[[D010 - Primar13]]

so.... this proves cryptic fails basic math?

Just Stop... No Need to Start a Flame War... This whole, "Cryptic Can't add and thats why the XP curve is so off", mentality is just annoying, the rate of XP Gain and requirements was a conscience choice by the Devs and they are continuing to make adjustments to find a middle ground between the Players and the Developers expectations/requirements. (Not an attack on you specifically)

Now that thats overwith

Gonna Miss NWS... Hope it Returns for the 50th, thats when I'd bring it back. being more story oriented towards Kobiashi Maru... but thats my 2 ec...

[Pottsey]

Great another perfect mission now ruined. I am running out of content to play due to bugs and stupid changes. Nukara Prime: Transdimensional Tactics didn't need any change to hit points or rewards it fit in perfectly against other missions. Now its going be just about impossible to pug I expect.

EDIT: Perhaps I am wrong depending on the scale. So health hitpoints go down but shields go up. That will make it easier.

[Eldiora]

There has to be some kind of mantra at Cryptic....


"Removing Content is good the players love it"

no what they said is that nukara boss now has roughly double the hp on elite.... yay hp sponge. Now I will have to hit the boss 20 seconds instead of 10 seconds to kill it.... god that has enriched my gameplay experience so much.

[Sysil]

no what they said is that nukara boss now has roughly double the hp on elite.... yay hp sponge. Now I will have to hit the boss 20 seconds instead of 10 seconds to kill it.... god that has enriched my gameplay experience so much.

Well, the players got what they wanted.

Each time Cryptic has introduced a better AI the players complained it was too difficult and it got nerfed multiple times before hitting holodeck at the players request and then nerfed again by request of the players with no Tribble access.

So the only compromise Cryptic could do are massive HP sponges.

So we can all thank Cryptic for listening to a very vocal part of the STO playerbase that don't want to learn to play the game and want no challenge.

[Husker]

A better AI would be so much better than a HP sponge.

[WelshAvenger]

A better AI would be so much better than a HP sponge.

This is so very true. I would have pointed out that Cryptic can't write AI worth a damn but I didn't want robotmp6023 to shout at me

[Sysil]

This is so very true. I would have pointed out that Cryptic can't write AI worth a damn but I didn't want robotmp6023 to shout at me

Read my previous post: Cryptic can do it and have put it on Tribble. The players did not want it and got it nerfed.