The 12th Fleet: Starbase Valhalla

I personally believe the only way to really solve this problem is to remove the 2nd amendment to the US constitution. It is not being used in the way it was originally intended. However beyond that, there needs to be a fundamental shift in the thinking of the american public so that guns are not the answer for everything. If you were to arm every citizen in the United States it will make things worse not better. In fact alot of US laws would need amending too such as the stand your ground law in Florida.

It should also be much more difficult to obtain a weapon than it currently is in many states. For example, here in Canada, to obtain a Possession and Acquisition Licence you require extensive background checks, in some cases in-depth investigations, 28 day waiting period on top of the 45 day processing time. You must have passed either the Canadian Firearms Safety Course or the Canadian Firearms Safety Course and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course based on the type of firearm you would like to purchase. On top of that you are required to disclose your conjugal status and inform your spouse or ex's of your intent to obtain a Licence. They cannot stop you from obtaining one but they are required to know about it. You must also have references and a guarantor . You may even be required to disclose medical information to obtain a licence. All of these disclosures will go to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as firearms Licences are handled federally in Canada.

Now I'm not saying we have a perfect system, Canada has had some mass shootings in the past, one in my very town 18 months ago (before I moved here) however it is much more difficult to obtain a firearm (especially a handgun (restricted)) here than it is in much of the United States.

Guns need to be removed from the populous not added to. As for my personal opinion, hunting rifles are fine, handguns perhaps in special circumstances and must be highly controlled and restricted. As for assault rifles, no, i do not believe anyone other than military should have that, in fact I think assault rifles are 100% prohibited here but I may be mistaken, I know handguns are on the restricted list.

Beyond that the United States needs to have a fundamental change in healthcare, especially mental health care as that would go along way in preventing quite a few of these incidents. The united states has always had a long history with the gun, extending all the back to the civil war and even further back but its America's love of the gun and the fact they have a right to weapons that is the cause of the problem. The solution will not be easy and unfortunately may never happen but it IS possible IMO to really curtail the number of incidents but it would require huge changes and unfortunately would upset alot of Americans.

This is just my opinion folks, trying not to get to political on this but the US has the highest gun crime in the world outside of war, that speaks to a fundamental problem.

Very well laid out, Patrick. I would add that both income and racial inequality are both fueling the already blazing fire, but you mentioned healthcare which is a large component. What is often missed on that, however, is that it's not just access that is needed, it's a fundamental shift in how we view mental healthcare. I grew up on the side of the aisle that has a huge disdain/distrust of all things academic. Those who suffered from mental health issues were told they should meet with their pastor instead of a healthcare professional. Some of that is slowly changing, but that demographic still shuns talk therapy from anything other than christian focused sources offering prayerful solutions. That can work in some cases, but it won't work for every case.

The notion that more guns, or more people with concealed carry permits will solve this is a myth perpetuated by Hollywood. To date, there are no examples of a citizen with a concealed carry shortening (let alone preventing) a mass shooting.

One absolutely hilarious side note, the Texas legislators who declared they would not allow any Syrian refugees into the state, actually said they couldn't because it was too easy to buy a gun in Texas. Thankfully, the individual states do not have the authority to confer or deny citizenship.

its a problem that will never be solved because of certain persons and entrenched ideologies.

First thank you to all for keeping this a civil conversation. I know it can be a sensitive topic.

Nice perspective Patrick and Traywick. As far as gun control goes, I'm not sure either more or less control would help. I'm sure I can't go I to Walmart or the local sporting store and get an AK-47. Part of the issue is texting ability to get a firearm that isn't legal, and or gotten from a non legal source. In my humble opinion.

The problem there is that 'illegal' is relative. Most of our gun legislation is either by a state or by a municipality (ie Chicago). Chicago has tighter restrictions, but it does no good when you can drive 20 minutes away and be in a completely different state. We need federal regulations to get anywhere, and even then it would take a generation or more to reduce the number of guns in circulation.

It's also an issue that there are virtually no restrictions on private sales. Most guns are initially bought legally, but nothing prevents me from putting an ad in the paper and selling that gun to the first person who inquires about it.

Try to let these staggering numbers sink in for a moment. The U.S. has around 4.4% of the global population. Around 30% of U.S. households own guns (some surveys say closer to 40%, but they're often trying to inflate numbers by mixing households and individuals). Those 30-40% own 42% of the world's civilian owned guns.


Some of those numbers come from Vox.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... -one-chart

(This one was updated yesterday)
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/9444417/gu ... es-america

N5XTR wrote:Keep in mind that the firearms used were illegal in California.

The point I make every time someone wants to talk about gun control. I said before it wouldn't stop anyone, and clearly it hasn't in CA.

enforce. gun. laws.

cmdraftbrn wrote:enforce. gun. laws.

it is easier said then done.

My opinion only,

As a man of the law I want to generalise gun CRIME and not just pick on the US as a example since other countries also have a problem with guns.

The problem being is if you give people the opportunity then people will use it. What people fail to see is the difference between gun FATALITIES and gun CRIME. Gun crime is allot bigger than gun deaths, some 451% more. There are allot of gun crimes where guns are used and not fired, fired and no one injured, fired and property damaged, fired and someone injured and being threatened with a gun with no gun present.

If you lay a taser, a batton, a gun and a CS spray on a table and tell someone to subdue a person in the way they think best, physiology tells us that the majority will choose the gun A) because of the threat it imposes, the simplicity of using it and the ease of what end result the gun can achieve. People rarely think about the consequences after using the gun, only what the gun can achieve at the end result. People will always go for the easier simpler option.

It is true that gun laws in many countries need to be updated with tighter restrictions as well as deterrents in buying a gun, but also their needs to be a culture change and the only way to do that is slowly try and train people into seeing there are better ways to achieve said end result without using a gun.

It would be a slow process since many countries, like the united states, have had centuries of ancestry knowledge passed down through the generations that owning and using a gun to protect themselves is not only a American right but a human right and we cannot blame them for that. What we can do is start now to try and change the culture to ween people of the idea of guns and the use of guns and start trying to train them into using less lethal means in order to achieve the result they want.

I'm not saying it will be a easy task and it would probably take allot longer than any of us will be alive to achieve but if the gun culture and the way people think about guns it not changed then we will only pass on our ideals to our children and our children's children.

and I'm sure we are all in agreement how upsetting it is thinking about our children in the future potentially using guns.

While some of the other shootings in the US might have a nexus with gun control, I believe this was totally different. This was totally about ISIS inspired Extreme Islamist Terrorism.

Being raised in Arkansas and currently living in Texas, I am a strong proponent of the 2nd amendment and being in law enforcement for 20 years I know that if the bad guys want a gun, they will find a way to get them...no matter what the law is.

Texas open carry begins next year...we'll see how that goes

Just my opinion and my prayers go out to the families of those taken.