The 12th Fleet: Starbase Valhalla

First of all, I am probably just having an anxiety attack. I certainly have plenty of time on my hands to think, worry and post!

I've been thinking about what I think I know about STO. I am not in beta. I've only seen videos on youtube and other sites. So, I've tried to think through the information I have available and using my observations, here are the things worrying me.

I've noticed that ships are always exactly relative to each other. In space, the ship approaching you could look completely upside down because there is no up or down, except in relation to yourself (up being above your head and down below your feet). In the game, there is a clear up and down. This is predictable because of the Champions Online client. In essence, you are flying as if you are a superhero above the city landscape. This is why your ship can climb or dive, but always "levels out". I do not like this. I don't think it's really a deal breaker, but it is hurting my sense of what's real. The only comparison I can make is knowing how Company of Heroes works. In that game, even though you appear to be on a hill the game sees no elevation, just obstacles between. So, shots appear to hit the ground somewhere between you and your target but they actually hit. Once you know how it works, the sense of realism is lessened.

I also worry about the scale. I admit I am not familiar with Star Trek distances. For example, what's the range of a ship's phaser? Because of the game engine used, the ranges seem artificial or wrong. It looks more arcade-like in the videos I've seen. Assuming the ranges are either supposed to be small or are reduced for game balancing reasons, the scale still makes things seem smaller than space should be. In other words, the planet you are near is actually only a few times the size of your ship, not millions of times your ship size, or larger.

Having said these things, I still think the game will be fun. I still think it's worth buying and playing. I'm not trying to be a kill-joy. I'm just thinking out loud about what I've seen. My biggest worry is how the engine is going to feel to me and whether I will be bothered by it.

Oh, and the crafting/economy. I hope there is more to do than fly around and shoot stuff.

APewty wrote:First of all, I am probably just having an anxiety attack. I certainly have plenty of time on my hands to think, worry and post!

I've been thinking about what I think I know about STO. I am not in beta. I've only seen videos on youtube and other sites. So, I've tried to think through the information I have available and using my observations, here are the things worrying me.

I've noticed that ships are always exactly relative to each other. In space, the ship approaching you could look completely upside down because there is no up or down, except in relation to yourself (up being above your head and down below your feet). In the game, there is a clear up and down. This is predictable because of the Champions Online client. In essence, you are flying as if you are a superhero above the city landscape. This is why your ship can climb or dive, but always "levels out". I do not like this. I don't think it's really a deal breaker, but it is hurting my sense of what's real. The only comparison I can make is knowing how Company of Heroes works. In that game, even though you appear to be on a hill the game sees no elevation, just obstacles between. So, shots appear to hit the ground somewhere between you and your target but they actually hit. Once you know how it works, the sense of realism is lessened.

I also worry about the scale. I admit I am not familiar with Star Trek distances. For example, what's the range of a ship's phaser? Because of the game engine used, the ranges seem artificial or wrong. It looks more arcade-like in the videos I've seen. Assuming the ranges are either supposed to be small or are reduced for game balancing reasons, the scale still makes things seem smaller than space should be. In other words, the planet you are near is actually only a few times the size of your ship, not millions of times your ship size, or larger.

Having said these things, I still think the game will be fun. I still think it's worth buying and playing. I'm not trying to be a kill-joy. I'm just thinking out loud about what I've seen. My biggest worry is how the engine is going to feel to me and whether I will be bothered by it.

Oh, and the crafting/economy. I hope there is more to do than fly around and shoot stuff.

I can answer all three concerns ;D

ok so #1 In the star trek universe, films books ect, there is a direct sense of up and down, this is done precisely so you dont get upside down ships flying at you.. it looks silly.
The client would allow up/down easily.. its just that it is cannon to keep everything the same way up.

As for climbing and diving.. then leveling out.. this is a design intention, they didnt want rolling or looping in any way as you dont see starcraft rolling in the films either..


#2 Phasers are beams of photon light right? Well.. im sure your aware the further away an object is... the less amount of photons reach it.. so if you shine a torch at the wall infront of you.. then walk back ten paces and shine it again, the second time the amount of light hitting the wall is much weaker.. same applies to phasers. Close up combat is always preferable to get the fulll extent of the phaser power, you dont have HUGE amounts of distance between ships even in the films ect, take for example the borg cube, no one fires at it in the film till they are very close, so the scale is actually pretty dead on. Obviously alot of the edges have had to be rounded out (for example theres no DEFFINATE range on the weapons... so cryptic have assigned one) but it still stays and feels very similar.

#3 theres two versions of crafting so il split this in two.

-1 First version is collecting materials and objects on your travels and returning to memory alpha, here you can break down that material and learn recipies, using the material to make stuff, this stuff ranges from personal shields, new weapons , new ship parts. Your character can craft ALL recipies meaning there are no crafting "classes" or "Skills" meaning you dont need to goto someone else and buy a part , since with enough work you can make it yourself.

-2 Secondly training bridge officers is a craft system, once you get far in on one of the space skill sets, say science, you can take a skill that lets you train your science bridge officers in advance skills. These advance skills cannot be obtained any other way and therefore, if you know a high level tactical engineer, you can sell a training kit (which is how we train other peoples bridge officers) to them so they can add those advanced science abilities to there science officer.
This way you dont have to skill up to max in tactical space skills just to get your tactical bridge officer max skilled, you can just trade with anouther tactical captain for a kit.


As for an economy, they are using a seeded economy by the way of an auction house, in addition to rare loot you might want on your ship, the products of the two crafting stuff above will also be sold on the AH.

Thanks for the info! I'm still concerned about 1 and 2, but I also feel good knowing that almost everyone that's seen it/played it, likes it.

In my MMO career I have figured out that it is better not to worry and dwell on things before you play the game. Then you begin to look for flaws while you play that may not even exist. It helps the enjoyment of the game immensely.

Thanks for the info! That helps out a lot!

Tsori wrote:#2 Phasers are beams of photon light right? Well.. im sure your aware the further away an object is... the less amount of photons reach it.. so if you shine a torch at the wall infront of you.. then walk back ten paces and shine it again, the second time the amount of light hitting the wall is much weaker.. same applies to phasers.

If you shine a powerfull laser pointer at the wall in front of you.. then walk back ten paces and shine again, it's pretty much the same.. Do this in the vacuum of space, and the speed of lasers/phasers should be pretty long..

However lasers/phasers can't travel faster than light, and most advanced ships do have FTL sensors so if the distance was to long they could just move out of the way I guess? But at the speed of light it takes 0.00003 seconds to go 10 KM. so the range of the phasers should at least be 150'000 Km (half a second travel time). Phasers do operate at or near the speed of light, don't they?